Council plans to sell 'iconic' Hertfordshire County Hall for 'alternate uses'

The matter was discussed during a meeting of Herts County Council’s Resources & Performance Cabinet Panel on Thursday, June 19.

The motion was carried with seven votes in favour, three against and one abstention, but the discussion preceding it saw emotions run high over the loss of County Hall – with the council chamber due to be moved away from the ancient county town of Hertford to a new site in Stevenage, close to where council officers are currently based.

The prospect of retaining the frontage of the historic building and the council chamber was discussed, with officers informing councillors that retaining the frontage would cost around £10 million.

An argument appeared to break out in the chamber at the end of the meeting as one councillor queried another’s voting decision, while questions were asked about the viability of the council chamber for redevelopment – with a member likening it to a “very large dining room”.

Councillor Rachel Carter, member for Hertford St Andrews, was permitted to speak for three minutes as the ward councillor for the site. She said: “It’s very important to me that the voices of residents should be heard in this debate as we consider the future of County Hall.

“I’ve listened carefully and I’ve spoken to many residents as well as to the Civic Society and to the town council and the local neighbourhood planning group, as to their views.

“Hertford has been the county town of Hertfordshire and its democratic and administrative hub for over 1,000 years. County Hall itself is Grade II-listed and represents the ambition and the self confidence of the county council when it was built 75 years ago with its impressive frontage and this wood-panelled council chamber.

“It’s an iconic building which is used to represent Hertfordshire County Council in news bulletins across the county, and the country in fact, and an outstanding venue for civic events. It’s also much used in filming, which has brought in substantial revenue in recent years.

“If we lose this building now as a democratic hub, we will not get it back. And the question is, is it justifiable to fill the new democratic hub now, when the shape of the new unitaries is not yet decided? In addition to that, we also need to make sure that any new owner will respect the history and quality of this outstanding building.”

Milena Nuti, vice chair of the Hertford Civic Society, was also allowed to make representations during the meeting.

She said: “We are very grateful to be able to speak on this topic because of the significance of this whole site and this building from the point of view of the civic society, architecturally, historically and economically for the city of Hertford.

“We have been engaged with the council in discussion about plans for the future of this site over the last month and in fact, had been under the impression that there were plans in the future but nothing concrete as yet.

“So, we’re dismayed to find through newspaper reports that the plans presented today were at such an advanced stage without perhaps as much previous awareness or scrutiny on the part of our committee, our members or the general public.”

Ms Nuti warned against “disposing of a wonderful, fit-for-purpose, historic chamber” in favour of building another in Stevenage, which she said was an “unjustified” expense.

Councillor Alex Curtis said he echoed the points made by Councillor Carter and Ms Nuti, before adding in his own objections to the proposal.

Councillor Curtis said: “We’ve been told that there’s this approximately £10 million cost of retaining this frontage. Can we possibly break down at some point how this has been calculated?

“We need to know what the cost is of building this council chamber and committee room in Stevenage, given that this council will only exist for another term or so, given the local government reorganisation, in all likelihood.

“By making that expenditure in Stevenage, how much would we save on running costs for this building per year? Say that we just keep this element [the chamber] of the County Hall site? I doubt that it’s in millions of pounds per year, but I could be wrong.”

Councillor Curtis then referred to historian Joseph Redlich’s monumental ‘History of Local Government in England’, in which the author wrote “so eloquently and so admirably” of “the love the English had of building structures like this”.

He added: “This building, this chamber, shows the value that past generations put on local government, that they wanted it to be respected, publicly visible, publicly accessible. You know, county halls are prominently featured in county towns.

“We’re not going to get that to the business park in Stevenage, as suitable as that is for officers to work in. We need to have public facing buildings like this.”

Councillor Curtis questioned whether including the frontage of the building in the sale would increase its marketability. He added: “I look at this room, what the hell are you going to do to convert this? Who is going to buy it? This is a liability having this [chamber] in with the rest of the site, potentially it could reduce the value of the site.”

Councillor John Graham said: “We’ve heard this building is Grade II-listed and my understanding is that this listing is both for internal and external purposes, so that means this chamber that we’ve got is virtually untouchable because it’s Grade II-listed… You’ve got to ask, what on Earth would we do, what would anybody do, with a chamber that looks like this if you can’t change it?” But not all councillors were opposed to the plans, with some pointing out faults with the current 75-year-old building.

Councillor Chris Lloyd said: “One thing I would say is that this is a really uncomfortable building depending on how tall you are… While we’re marketing it, I would have thought [we’d be] having meetings like this in Stevenage where we don’t have to have all the fans on, where we’ve got air conditioning.

“I can remember coming to a county council meeting where we had to cut the business short because it was far too hot in here. So, I would be wanting to see us moving the committee meetings regardless of what ends up with the marketing of this site.”

In response to councillors’ concerns, the council’s property director Sass Pledger said that Savills had been selected to market the site after a competitive tender was put out. She said Savills were chosen as one of the top three estate agents in the country and were “incredibly well-versed” in marketing large business properties.

She said: “In terms of the uses, we’re not just looking to market for residential, it will be any use, so it could be commercial, so we will continue to keep that door open and actively market around that. We have spoken to hoteliers in Hertfordshire, unfortunately there is limited interest in this site because it doesn’t have grounds to support a hotel, but we are still proactively having conversations with all avenues of interested parties.

“In terms of the splitting costs, we employed the services of a contractor to meticulously look at the current utilities on site, the mechanical and electrical on site, to see what the cost of splitting would be. At the time, we weren’t pushing to separate the front from the rear, so there was no hidden agenda there, it was very much a full survey of the anticipated works, and that’s where the £9 million plus amount came from, predominately owing to the antiquated systems in the building, it’s going to be incredibly difficult to split the front from the rear. So if we did retain it, we would be looking at a cost within the region of £10 million.”

Councillor Alexander Curtis described the prospect of moving all council meetings to Stevenage as “all very premature”, adding: “Just look at this room, it would be a very large dining room wouldn’t it?”

Councillor Chris Lloyd disagreed and said there was a “keenness to move committees to Stevenage”.

Vice-chairman of the committee, Councillor Tim Williams said: “It is appreciated that moving Herts County Council from Hertford does pull heart strings. There’s no doubt about it, moving out of the county town is an emotive issue and has caused much discussion in our group and let alone elsewhere.

“But due to where the staff are now located and the savings identified, it’s a decision that I think we need to make now. It is a great shame that in the past two years, there’s been no real interest in County Hall or for the rear of it to be used for employment uses.

“As such, it’s only right we explore further alternative uses and it’s good that East Herts has now confirmed that the council can now begin to market County Hall for alternative uses and hence it’s right for us to explore this further.”

Chairman Chris Lucas summarised the points of the recommendation, including the creation of a new chamber in Stevenage, adding: “Trying to find something which has the same gravity and heritage as County Hall will be nigh on impossible, that is true.

“However, where we are now with all the staff that are currently in Stevenage, and the savings we will incur, and the costs that we incur with keeping County Hall, along with the sustainability issues that I don’t think we’ve necessarily talked a huge amount about in terms of carbon neutrality, these are all reasons why the proposal has come before the cabinet panel to move to Stevenage.”

Councillors then voted on whether to recommend marketing the County Hall site for alternative uses, which was carried with seven votes in favour, three against and one abstention.

An argument appeared to break out in the chamber as Councillor Curtis queried a fellow member voting to “move democratic meetings out of the town he represents”. But the chairman responded: “Councillor Curtis, he has voted according to what he thought was right, we have had a fair discussion on this and the votes are in favour.”

The matter will now be referred to the council’s cabinet for a final decision.